10:30:42	 From  Craig McGee : Good morning,, everyone!!!
10:33:17	 From  Janet du Preez : Hi All. Not putting video on because we have a storm coming and that may cause interference. Good evening from South Africa.
10:37:23	 From  Craig McGee : Two themes…..low structure in design; many adaptive models; second one - need to tap into the human element to sustain designs
10:49:39	 From  Bill Zybach : The distinction that Holacracy works well for bringing in people who don’t normally have the opportunity to be involved, but does not address the dynamics of senior management.
10:50:07	 From  Wendy Bowers : H as a way to drive decision making down
10:50:59	 From  Bill Zybach : Theme - Humanistic vs Mechanistic
10:54:43	 From  Jeroen Van Bree : How can we use Holacracy to improve decision-making without losing the emotion?
10:56:34	 From  Bernard Mohr : what does “addressing the human dynamics” include, mean ?
10:57:01	 From  Jeroen Van Bree : Can we adapt Holacracy in specific implementations to better fit the organization's goals? Or can it only be implemented as-is in order to work?
10:58:27	 From  Craig McGee : Jeroen, I would hope/“believe” that we could adapt it.
10:58:40	 From  Bernard Mohr : I also wonder how much of the media critique is a reflection of “we cant imagine people at all levels” having significant thought around strategic (vs just operational) issues”
10:59:56	 From  Craig McGee : We had the same dynamic around TQM…..it was introduced in a mechanistic fashion, not always respecting the true principles that Deming founded it on.
11:01:09	 From  Bernard Mohr : Might we also say that TQM was a “destination based” version of Demings principles vs a participative, principle based design process?
11:01:34	 From  Craig McGee : I think that is a good observation, Bernard.
11:02:11	 From  Bill Zybach : I agree with Marilyn’s Both and Perspective
11:02:15	 From  Wendy Bowers : One examples does not make a trend - the reading I clicked through only had 2 examples.  Zappos and Medium.  There are others using Holacracy and those were not represented
11:02:53	 From  Bernard Mohr : Ken - Im wondering how you might imagine that Holocracy might be modified to accommodate senior managers - assuming that there might be some value in that ?
11:03:28	 From  kenshepard-air : I’m not able to read and think and listen too…So we can perhaps chat later.
11:04:20	 From  Organization Design Forum : If you'd like to schedule a follow up call, you're welcome to use ODF's Zoom line if it's available to support the continued conversation
11:05:32	 From  Bernard Mohr : It is interesting that we speak of “doing an implementation” vs engaging the system in redesign… I assume that is intentional ?
11:05:43	 From  Craig McGee : like with most of our “methodologies”, it is still important to think of it as a whole system.  Using whole systems thinking…..
11:07:20	 From  Bernard Mohr : Im reminded by the many colleagues who “did implementations of TBO’s”
11:08:36	 From  Bernard Mohr : Ken has a point - different tools of different levels…question of course is does this challenge the “integrity” of the holocratic model? … really dont know enougjh
11:10:09	 From  Craig McGee : Agree with Bill….it’s another tool in our tool kit that we can integrate with all of our other tools - participative design, agile, appreciative inquiry, and so on
11:13:01	 From  Bernard Mohr : Holocracy beyond the operational level - a great area of inquiry
11:13:43	 From  Janet du Preez : I am curious about Bill's thoughts about where it works best and where he would defnitely not use it.
11:15:29	 From  Bernard Mohr : Craig - I dont see participative design, agile, appreciative inquiry, and so on as tools of the same feather :-)
11:16:57	 From  Craig McGee : No they are not of the same feather, but we can utilize elements of all of them at certain points of a transformation
11:17:24	 From  Bernard Mohr : Holocracy strikes me as a predetermined “design” covering structure, DM, small group dynamics etc. This is not true of participative processes, or AI (dont know about Agile)
11:17:59	 From  kenshepard-air : Holocracy has a great publicity and marketing effort.  Everybody is buzzing about it.  Do we have anything published measuring the results of holocracy over several years?  Zappos, the most famous case has no measurable results and its in trouble
11:18:11	 From  Bernard Mohr : Yes .. agree we can utilize elements of all of them at certain points of a transformation AND the question is can one “mix and match"?
11:20:35	 From  Bernard Mohr : Is Holocracy “anti-manager” … ??
11:20:54	 From  Wendy Bowers : I’ve been really curious around company size.  Hypothesis that H might work better in smaller orgs.  Medium is a smaller org - and found it would not continue to work for them
11:22:22	 From  Wendy Bowers : The TQM example makes me think on how few things transfer across orgs. What works one place is not the magic answer for others.
11:22:32	 From  Bernard Mohr : Evaluating H would be a great optty to do some Dynamic Appreciative Eval :-)
11:23:20	 From  Morgan Chambers : Impact and success of holocracy 
11:23:22	 From  kenshepard-air : Accountability and Holocracy
11:23:28	 From  Jeroen Van Bree : 1. Can Holacracy work at the higher management levels? 
11:23:32	 From  Wendy Bowers : Bernard - yes.
11:23:32	 From  kenshepard-air : Research on benefits / costs of holocracy
11:23:35	 From  Janet du Preez : Long-term impact of holocracy on leadership effectiveness
11:23:46	 From  Bernard Mohr : 1) Is Holocracy anti manager? 2) Can Holocracy go  beyond the operational level? - a great area of inquiry
11:23:49	 From  Craig McGee : Other topics….how can we truly evaluate the benefits of different design approaches not just H
11:23:54	 From  kenshepard-air : Can requisite organization and holocracy be used together in some way?
11:24:28	 From  Morgan Chambers : i dont tweet
11:24:42	 From  kenshepard-air : Excellent monthly forum on zoom.
11:24:45	 From  Craig McGee : Need to understand if H is a “methodology” or a mental model
11:25:05	 From  Janet du Preez : Fascinating debate about Holocracy and its universal application
11:25:06	 From  Bernard Mohr : #Holocracy works, doesnt work, might work … many questions.. many possibilities more inquiry needed
11:25:13	 From  Jeroen Van Bree : Challenging ourselves as designers using the Holacracy/Zappos case
11:25:21	 From  Wendy Bowers : Ongoing curiosity from #orgdesign community on Holacracy’s opp’t and challenges
11:25:30	 From  Bill Zybach : New perspectives on the challenges and possibilities of Holacracy
11:26:28	 From  kenshepard-air : Will think about it and send later.
11:26:46	 From  Bernard Mohr : many more articles available on Holocracy…for next month… chapters from “Co-creating Humane and Innovative Organizations” :-)
11:27:08	 From  Janet du Preez : Agree with Ken. Will send through when I come across something. Nothing comes to mind right now. 
11:27:09	 From  Bill Zybach : Working in Authoritarian Organizations, how to survive
11:27:16	 From  Wendy Bowers : The Ready and August have weekly newsletters I like - often a nugget or 2.
11:27:24	 From  kenshepard-air : Trump influence on org design in USA
11:28:30	 From  kenshepard-air : nice format, nice structure with human element
11:28:33	 From  Bernard Mohr : appreciate the parallel dialogue in the chat box
11:28:58	 From  Janet du Preez : Great conversation. Very provocative.
11:29:10	 From  Craig McGee : Appreciate the conversation with folks like you; I can’t have these conversations with many other people
11:29:41	 From  Morgan Chambers : dynamic medium and different perspectives 
11:30:15	 From  Bernard Mohr : gotta go thank you all !!!
11:30:17	 From  Morgan Chambers : thank you - great facilitation
11:30:25	 From  Wendy Bowers : love listening and chatting at same time; interesting and intriguing
11:30:31	 From  Janet du Preez : Thanks all!!!